Central Church - Who We Are

Question: : Why couldn't Esau repent? I don't understand how someone can search for repentance in tears and not find it. How could God love Jacob more?

Answer: I believe the Hebrews 12:16,17 passage you are referring to about Esau not being able to repent is probably a misunderstanding of its meaning. I think what it is saying is that Esau sought for his father Isaac to repent (change his mind about giving the blessing of the firstborn to Jacob) but he couldn't obtain this blessing. What his father had done was done. No matter how much he cried or begged, Isaac would not change his mind.

As far as God loving Jacob more than Esau (Romans 9:13), this is a quote from Malachi 1:2,3, where God is seeking to help the discouraged and bitter Israelites who have returned to the land know that He indeed does love them, despite their unwillingness to see that. He demonstrates this by showing how He has brought destruction on Esau (i.e., the nation that sprang from Esau, Edom) and yet brought Israel (Jacob) back to the land He gave them. I don't think this is to be taken exactly literally, but is a stark way of saying, in essence, "I have brought some painful circumstances to Esau and blessing to Israel, as if I hate them and love Israel." Paul uses this passage to show that God's choice of Jacob (Israel) over Esau for the birthright and blessing was His sovereign choice and His way of selecting out from Abraham's offspring those upon whom He wants to bestow salvation. This is Paul's defense against those Jews who would argue that Paul's gospel must not be true or the Israelites would have embraced it. Paul is arguing that not all offspring of Abraham have ever embraced the promise of God. There has always been a limited number based on God's choice, but nevertheless their choice is something God would still hold them accountable for (Romans 9:19-21).

Randall Johnson

Question: : What is the difference between Roman Catholicism and what Central Church teaches?

Answer:The differences can be broken down into several categories:

AUTHORITY: Protestants (Central Church is a Protestant church) do not accept that the Pope, the bishop of Rome, is the final authority for the church, nor is he infallible when he speaks from his position of authority. His word holds no more authority than any other man of spiritual accomplishment. We may appreciate his wisdom, but do not take it as law. We also respect the traditions and councils of the past, but we do not see them as binding. Only the Bible can be the arbiter for our decisions about what God wants us to be and do as His Church.

SALVATION: We believe that a right relationship with God cannot be achieved by doing good works. In fact, if we are depending on our works to get us to heaven we will be sorely disappointed. Paul said, "For by grace you have been saved by faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" (Ephesians 2:8,9). We are "saved" (rescued from the penalty of our sin, which is death) by faith alone, that is, by trusting in Christ's provision of forgiveness (entire forgiveness of sins past, present and future) only, not our own efforts to be good. However, the faith which receives God's free gift of eternal life is never alone. It will always produce good works in the one who truly believes. Paul said in Ephesians 2:10, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

We also do not believe that you have to be a member of the Catholic Church to be in God's family (http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9909frs.asp). Faith in Christ transcends denominations. To be fair, there are some Protestants who in essence believe that if you are not a part of their denomination you are likely not saved, but this is wrong.

SCRIPTURE: Protestants are encouraged to read and study the Bible, whereas, at least in the past, Catholics were not. There are variations of interpretation of the Bible within Catholicism, but not anything like among Protestants. However, it is Protestants who have furthered the progress of Bible interpretation far beyond the Catholic scholarship, though Catholics have made significant contributions. But this is because Protestants see the Bible as available to everyone and the only authority by which we discern God's will.

There is also a difference in the amount of value placed on the Apocrypha, a group of books written after Malachi and before the New Testament that Catholics include in their Bibles. Catholics give much more authority to these books than do Protestants, as evidenced by the fact that few Protestant Bibles even include them.

SACRAMENTS: Protestants, Central Church included, only believe in two rites of salvation, baptism and the Lord's supper. Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, the Eucharist (Lord's Supper), Penance (confession to an ordained priest and assigned acts of contrition), Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders (ordination of bishops, priests and deacons), and Matrimony make up the seven sacraments for Catholics, who define these as "efficacious signs of grace perceptible to the senses" through which "divine life is bestowed" and which are "necessary means of salvation for the faithful" (Wikipedia, Sacraments of the Catholic Church).

Protestants do not, for the most part, believe that baptism or the Lord's Supper are necessary means of salvation, but do see them as essential to the blessing of our lives and encouragement to spiritual growth once we are saved.

Protestants also do not see the elements of the Lord's Supper, the bread and the wine, as in any way actually becoming the physical body and blood of Christ. Lutherans believe that the physical body and blood of Christ surround the elements during the Lord's Supper, but other Protestants, including Central Church, believe the elements symbolize the body of Christ and that he is present in a spiritual sense only when we partake of the supper in faith.

PRAYER AND CONFESSION: We do not practice praying to the saints who have gone before us. In the Catholic confession, though all believers may be called "saints" in a general sense, there are those who have elevated themselves by exemplary lives and performance of miracles who have then been enshrined by the church as official Saints of the church. These people are often called upon in prayer, particularly Mary, the mother of Jesus, to bring their requests to the Lord Himself. It is assumed that they have the ear of God in a way we might not and can aid us in getting our requests answered. At Central Church we believe that we have just as much access and just as much the ear of God as any other believer because we come through the merit of Christ. We do ask others to pray for us, and may feel they have a better chance of being heard than we do, but this is essentially wrong. There is value in having many pray, not because God will be more persuaded to respond, but because it is a way of showing our love for one another.

At Central we encourage confessing our sins in situations with other believers where a bond of trust has been established and an accountability can be maintained. There is no need to go to an ordained individual for this purpose, though there is no discouragement from doing so.

LEADERSHIP: Though we ordain men to the ministry and assign them responsibilities to lead God's flock, we also believe that every believer is a priest before God, with full access to Him and full rights to exercise decisions of conscience. We will seek advice and direction from leaders, but do not see leaders as exercising authority more potent than their example. Believers are told to obey their leaders (Hebrews 13:17) but leaders are encouraged not to "lord it over" the flock (1 Peter 5:3).

For further study from one facet of the Catholic Church about their distinctive beliefs visit http://www.catholic.com/default.asp.

Randall Johnson

Question: : I'm getting more complicated on this one than my usual questions. Exodus 20:5 says, "...punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation...." Is this inevitable or is there a way to prevent it? There is a situation with a friend, who I really believe to be a Christian, but who seems to have some addictive behavior that is not Christian. I don't mean to be judgmental, but I am very concerned.

Answer:This is more complicated than usual. This is from the Ten Commandments and the passage reads in full,

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Misrepresenting God in the form of an idol has devastating consequences for generations to come, whereas loving God as He commands brings blessing for many, many more generations to come. But how do we square this with Deuteronomy 24:16, which says, "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin"? Exodus 20:5 cannot be contradicting this. It would also seem to contradict the scriptures to say that one person's obedience and love results in their offspring for generations to come to have God's salvation without believing on their own. All of this suggests that this warning in Exodus 20:5 is speaking more to the "natural" impact of a parent's unbelief. It affects the overall health of the family which makes it less likely that individuals within the next generations will view God correctly.

If this is the case, then this passage is not meant to carry specific time lines (the phrase "third and fourth" is not intended literally but is a catch phrase used to mean "several," just as Amos's "for three sins...even for four" is not meant literally in 1:3 and others). So to answer your question, yes, there is always a way to break the cycle, by the grace of God. An individual within an unbelieving family can also affect the whole family (Exodus 20:6).

Randall Johnson

Question: : What is the best way to explain the differences in our soul and spirit? And what happens eternally?

Answer:If you do a study of the use of the words "soul" (Hebrew, nephesh, Greek, psuche) and "spirit" (Hebrew, ruach, Greek, pneuma), I believe you will find that they are used interchangeably as a description of what gives life to the body and bears the aspects of personality in human beings. For example, Mary said in Luke 1:46-47, "My soul maginifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior," using the typical Hebrew poetic device of parallelism, where the first phrase is repeated using different but synonymous terms in a second phrase. People who have died and gone to heaven or hell can be called either spirits (Hebrews 12:23; 1 Peter 3:19) or souls (Revelation 6:9; 20:4).

But what then do we do with passages like 1 Thessalonians 5:23, "May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ"? It is most likely that Paul is talking about our sanctification in more emphatic terms by adding terms to the description. When Jesus said we were to love God with our hearts, souls and minds, he did not mean that there are three distinct parts to the inner man (leaving out spirits), but that we were to love God with every aspect of our being. Since spirit and soul are two interchangeable ways of speaking about the inner man he includes both here for emphasis.

Hebrews 4:12 is another passage which seems to separate soul and spirit as different entities, saying that the Word of God is able to penetrate "even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." Again, if we include heart in this discussion we end up with three inner parts to mankind. But the author of this passage is more likely speaking about how the Word of God exposes the inner workings of our motives located in various aspects, not entities, of our inner being, including even the most inner parts of our joints and marrow, viewed as seats of our emotions and thinking.

From the standpoint of what happens eternally, we know that the soul/spirit separates from the body at death (James 2:26; Philippians 1:21-26) and goes immediately to either Hades (if you do not know Christ) or heaven (if you do know Christ) and remains there until the resurrection of the body (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) when Jesus will bring the souls of those who have died in him to earth to be reunited with perfected bodies. The resurrection, which is the joining of a perfected spirit/soul and perfected body, is one of the most important doctrines in the Christian faith (1 Corinthians 15). We are not meant to be disembodied spirits for eternity.

Wayne Grudem's, Systematic Theology, is an excellent source for this topic and others.

Randall Johnson

Question: : Does Central not believe that God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit is like an egg 3 parts but still one? I am Frankie the daughter, wife, mother but still the woman I was born. I have 3 parts but just one person. God the Holy Spirit stayed in heaven while He took on man form as Jesus that walked the earth. We cannot see 2 faces when we get to heaven but the shining precious face of Jesus.

Answer:No, Central does not believe that. It is a common way of expressing the concept of the Trinity but I believe it is an inadequate way of dealing with the truths of Scripture. For example, John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." We see equality with God in the last phrase (equality of nature, I believe) but we see the Word, Jesus, being with God, which indicates distinctness of person. Though I am a father, a son, and a husband, I cannot be with myself in any qualitative sense. When Jesus prayed to the Father, was he really just talking to himself? When he said that the Father knew the day of his return but he did not (Mark 13:32), that indicates that there was a distinction between them. They are not the same person.

The historic teaching of the church on the Trinity is that there are three persons who share the same undivided nature (deity). They have been in union and fellowship with one another from all eternity. They worked together to create the universe and create us. One member of this trinity also took on human nature in addition to divine nature and died on the cross for us. Neither the Father nor the Spirit did that, but they were all part of the plan and execution of the plan. Each had different roles in the plan.

We will see Jesus' face in heaven, but we will also then, with spiritual eyes in spiritual, resurrected bodies, be able to see the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Here is a link to several articles I wrote on this subject that may be of help.

Follow up question: I believe it is three but all in Jesus. We will be able to see the Father and the Holy Spirit in Jesus. There cannot to me be Jesus standing there or sitting, then the Father and then the Holy Spirit. We would all be running around crazy looking back and forth. I think our focus will totally be on Jesus. Scripture says Me and my Father are one, if you have seen me you have seen the Father. Oh well, Jesus is the way and we believe in Him so that is what counts.

Follow up answer: The Bible says that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God the Father. In the book of Revelation as the Father sits enthroned the Lamb comes to him to receive the scroll with seven seals (Rev.5:6,7). There is no problem in Scripture having them sitting or standing next to each other. When Jesus said, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30), he used the neuter form of the word "one." If he had used the masculine it could possibly be interpreted that he meant he and the Father were the same person. But in using the neuter he was stating that he and the Father were the same thing, which can be interpreted to mean, the same substance or essence. They are different persons, as the Scriptures clearly teach. But they share the same essence. This is obviously something difficult, if not impossible, for us to grasp. But what would we expect from the infinite God. If He were completely understandable to us He would not be God.

Randall Johnson

Question: : In 1 John 5 16-17 it says, "If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that." Since the word "brother" is used I don't believe it could mean blasphemy, but maybe apostasy. Could it be the word "brother" is not used as Christian brother but Jewish brother referring back to Hebrew 6:4-6? And thus it would be useless to pray about. 1 John 1:9 says if you confess sin God is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. The only sin unforgivable is blasphemy. If it does refer to a Christian could it mean quenching the Spirit? Perhaps the death is physical death not spiritual death? Still I'm troubled that prayer couldn't help. Or could it be John is saying we should not pray for the sin that leads to death to get an early exit out of this world, like Jonah?

Answer:This is without a doubt one of the most difficult passages in the New Testament to interpret, so I will give my interpretation with the caution that the jury is still out on this one as far as a consensus among evangelical interpreters. So here goes.

I believe that the "brother" here is merely a professing Christian who, unlike those who left the assembly and professed an apostate view of Christ (that he did not come in the flesh), have stayed in the assembly of believers but have been swayed by the false teaching concerning Jesus. This fits with John's usage of "brother" in 3:15 where the one who does not have eternal life hates his "brother," that is hates someone who would be his brother if he were a believer in fact.

John has just raised the issue of certainty in prayer when we know God's will (5:13-15), but here is a case where we have a certainty and an uncertainty. If a "brother" is committing sin that does not lead to death (in this case, the "brother" or professing believer has given in to the false teaching about Jesus but has not left the congregation and is seeking the truth), then we may have confidence that God will "give him life" (eternal life) as a result of our prayers.

But if someone is sinning a sin that leads to death (he or she falls prey to false teaching and rejects the church and leaves the congregation, allying him or herself with the false teachers), John cannot give the prayer assurance that God will "give him life." As John says in 5:18, those truly born of God do not continue in sin but are kept by God and give evidence that they are God's children by their adherence to truth and godliness.

Randall Johnson

Question: : What does Leviticus 21:16-23 mean as far as disabled people are concerned? The reason I ask is I have a disabled son.

Answer:This passage restricts those in Aaron's line from functioning as priests if they have any kind of defect physically. The reason that might have made sense to the Israelites was that like the sacrifices they offered that had to be perfect, so the priests who offered them had to be "perfect" in order to please God. They would certainly have also had some idea that a perfect sacrifice was representative of the need for a blameless substitute for their sin and guilt. When they offered the animal in their place it was the "just" for the unjust that was being offered. Likewise, the priest who offered it could not be "unjust" symbolically speaking, but needed to be perfect to get the desired result - forgiveness from God.

We know that God was also preparing His people to receive the real and ultimate sacrifice for our sins and high priest to offer the sacrifice - Jesus Christ. The symbols of the Old Testament rituals were symbols of Jesus and how his sacrifice was of a truly sinless substitute for our truly sinful selves.

Consequently this passage says nothing about the way God views people with disabilities in any personal sense. Jesus willingness to touch and heal many who had severe disabilities and illnesses is proof that God loves all of us. We are all disabled in many ways, spiritually, emotionally and physically. We cannot come to God on the basis of how "together" we are. I come "just as I am, without one plea, but that His blood was shed for me."

God uses the disabilities in our lives and the comfort He teaches us to find in the midst of our disabilities to give us something to share with others in their disabilities. Our disabilities become one source of our ministry in the lives of others. We can identify with those who have our same disabilities and offer them what God offered us with a passion and believability that no one else can.

Randall Johnson